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Customer Reviews (7)

Bad shipping
I ordered this book for a class on the 11th with 2 day shipping... and on the 20th it has yet to be shipped. As I ordered this from amazon, and not an independent seller, I expected to get it in the time frame estimated, as the book is in stock. If it is not shipped within the next day, I plan to cancel my order.

Fantastic!
The great Seth Benardete has provided an accurate and intriguing translation of this classic masterpiece. The "Ladder of Love" by Bloom is also included, and is as equally important to a fuller understanding of the symposium as a good translation is.
*Note: the ladder of love is a chapter from Bloom's Love and Friendship, so be aware that if you already have this you are mainly buying Benardete's translation. On that note, it is one of the best translations around.

A timeless discourse on desire
Plato's Symposium is a discourse on the nature and origins of love and eroticism.This is done through a lengthy dialogue at the dinner party at the home of Agathon, where he and his guests, including Socrates (his lover), partake in wine and take turns eulogizing Eros, the god of love and desire.Each does his best to praise the god, while Socrates comments on them afterward through speech and dialogue.In the end, the party is joined by the intoxicated Alcibiades, who speaks of Socrates's honorable traits while also confessing his love and desire for him.

Symposiums in Greek society were a chance for men to recline on couches and drink, converse, debate and party with one another.They were usually held to celebrate a young male entering aristocratic society, and normally these youths would attend as the companion of one of the adults with whom we was involved in a pederastic relationship.The arguments and topics presented in the Symposium can be difficult for the average modern reader to comfortably comprehend, as nearly each speech somehow turns inevitably to the subject of, and ultimate praise of, pederasty.This physical and emotional love between a man and a youth is held in high regard in the Symposium's reasoning, often being seen as more pure and more desirable than one between a man and a woman.The latter is more bent on procreation and physical attraction, while, in their eyes, pederasty deals more with souls and the love of that which is alike.It is these assumptions, which arise in each speech, which can make it difficult for one to agree completely with one of the character's arguments. Nevertheless, it is possible to find persuasive elements in each of their various speeches that can reveal valuable insight into the ways and reasons that human beings love and are beloved.

The young Phaedrus is the first to honor Eros.The value of his view lies in his belief that a man who loves is a man who cares, and thus a man who strives to do good and not bring about shame to him or the ones he loves.Pausinias is next to speak, and he is persuasive in distinguishing the two manifestations of Eros, or two types of love: the love of the physical (Pandemus) and the love of the spiritual (Uranian).He then correctly places the spiritual love higher, for those of the other kind "are in love with their bodies and not their souls" and they can be "in love with the stupidest there can be, for they have an eye only to act [sexually] and are unconcerned with whether it is noble or not" (Plato 10).He decrees that one must love both the body and the soul, for if one loves only the body, "as soon as the bloom of the body fades - which is what he was in love with - `he is off and takes wing'" (Plato 13).

The third to speak is Eryximachus, whose speaks rightly of loves impact upon art and beauty.Aristophanes next gives an amusing, although no less romantic, portrayal of primordial balls of flesh rolling around, and being split into two parts, and searching the rest of its life for its other half to finally complete itself.It illustrates the loneliness one feels when without their lover.Agathon then gives an eloquent speech, the highlight of which is Eros's power to bring humans together in happiness.

Lastly, the wise Socrates speaks.At first he uses what has presently been deemed `Socratic dialogue' by asking Agathon a series of questions in order to bring out inconsistencies in his argument.By doing this, he is able manipulate a conversation to his liking, and convince the person he is conversing with of his own opinion by making it seem as though they arrived at that idea themselves.In this instance, Agathon originally said that Eros was by nature good and beautiful, but when examining the nature of love through Socrates' interrogation, he concludes that Eros is neither good nor beautiful.Socrates furthers his explanation by recounting a dialogue he had with a wise woman named Diotima of Mantineia.The genius of this instance is the realization of procreation being a way for an individual to seek immortality, and the need to create, in general, things such as art or great ideas or laws are driven from this need to be remembered.Human beings not only generate but also nurture to further the guarantee that their mark will be made lasting, whether it is a child or an epic.This could certainly account for the passion in humans for fame and/or reproduction, and gives terrific insight into the ultimate purposes of most human actions.(However, Diotima seems to fall short in one part of her argument when she says that man "will never generate in the ugly" for he desires beauty and good too greatly, yet infamy through death and fear has certainly been a motivating factor in many men's actions through their course to fame and remembrance).

In this publication by The University of Chicago Press the reader is given Seth Benardete's beautiful translation along with the Allan Bloom's insightful "Ladder of Love," which offers an analysis of the ancient text (although some background knowledge of the historical Socrates would ensure getting the most out of this essay).Plato's Symposium proves to be a wonderfully philosophical discourse on desire, although some of its ideas, as identified earlier, are justly outdated.Nevertheless, it provides a glimpse into the inner workings of man's heart and the forces that propel him to go on each day.

Decent
I found many of the ideas about love in the Symposium very interesting and the Ladder of Love that followed was also good to read.

best edition available
This is an elegant and accurate translation (much more readable than Benardete's gnomic renditions of Theaetetus / Sophist / Statesman). Benardete's essay is also a joy (it was previously published, but in a rather obscure German edition). Bloom's commentary is a bit of a slog and very rarely surprising. The reviewer below who remarked that "if you already have Love and Friendship and a copy of the Symposium you might feel gyped [sic]" has missed the mark; the prize here is the translation itself. Now if only Chicago had included Blanckenhagen's "Stage and Actor" as well! ... Read more

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The Laws of Plato, written by legendary author Plato is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic and historical texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, The Laws of Plato is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, The Laws of Plato would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

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Laying down the law...
When one thinks of Plato and his ideas of politics, one naturally gravitates toward his best-known work, the Republic. In that book, Plato set up the ideal city-state, with classes born and bred to specific functions and roles in society, and a sense of philosophical outlook consistent across the board. However, such a society was unlikely to be brought out, in Plato's time and, as it turned out, in any other.

Plato tried at different times to persuade rulers to become his envisioned philosopher-king; the last attempt was with a tyrant of Syracuse, who in the end imprisoned Plato rather than following his directions. Plato wrote this work, 'The Laws', as the last of his dialogues. Its difference from the Republic is immediately apparent in the absence of Socrates as a character - Plato at the end of his life has finally taken to working in his own right and not through a proxy.

Just looking at the contents will show the breadth of this work - it involves practically every aspect of civil society: legislative bodies (and Plato has some scathing commentaries on some that he has known); education and its proper role and method (including even drinking parties as part of the educational process); ideas of monarchy, democracy, and the balance of power (some American constitutional ideas were generated from a reading (and occasional misreading) of this work); civil administration; arts and sciences; military and sports training; sexual conduct; economics; criminal law, torts, and judicial process; religion and theology; civil law, property and family law; Plato even argues for the need of a 'nocturnal council', one that delves not only into the practical aspects of the law, but also their philosophical bases.

According to translator and editor Trevor Saunders, 'The reader of the Republic who picks up the Laws is likely to have difficulty in believing that the same person wrote both.' Saunders speculates that Plato in his older years changed from optimism to pessimism, from idealism to realism, but that this is not all there is to the assumption, because in actual fact the transition from the Republic to the Laws involves transitioning unattainable ideals to attainable realities.

Plato describes the construction of a utopian society in great detail, down to the number of citizens permitted to live in the city (5040) and the length of time foreigners might reside in the city (20 years). This shows that Plato considers politics to be an exact science (indeed, despite the inclusion of the 'nocturnal council', he did see his system of laws being essentially unalterable through history). Plato is not averse to the use of force and coercion to set up and maintain the utopian society. Finally, Plato sees a self-contained kind of society that is likely to become xenophobic to the extreme, with less tolerance toward its own citizens than toward those foreigners permitted to live and work in the city. Indeed, for the virtuous citizens to be free to pursue their virtue, the majority of the manual work and crafts must be done by a worker class composed of slaves or immigrant workers, or both.

Plato's Laws suffer from much greater criticism in the modern world than the Republic, in part because it is a more 'realistic' work, with a reality that no longer applies. However, many of his insights are worthwhile, and the overall structure of his society reflected in the Laws is worth discussion as much as is that of the Republic. One of the problems with this work vis-a-vis the Republic is its length (the Laws is considerable longer); another problem is that it lacks the dramatic reading possible from the Republic, rather the difference between a political debate and a legal seminar. Still, it is an important work, showing how Plato's thought had shifted in his lifetime.

A Useful Corrective to a Distorted View of Plato
Plato's "Republic" is used most often in college courses to illustrate Plato's thoughts on politics, but it does not seem to contain a serious political program.The characters in the "Republic" are mostly young men not yet entrusted with political responsibility who are, nevertheless, concerned with justice and how a city would have to be composed in order to be fully just.That such a city could never, in fact, come about becomes less important than the questions of justice and soul that the discussion raises.Obviously (and by Plato's intention) the "Republic" does not present a practical political program.Students relying on this dialogue alone to get a sense of Plato's thoughts on the best regime may be led astray, especially if they are guided by a bad teacher (of which there are many in the universities).The best corrective to this is to read Pangle's translation of Plato's "Laws".In this dialogue an Athenian Stranger discusses various proposed laws with a Cretan who is shortly to assist in the founding of the new colony of Magnesia.The laws and regulations proposed by the Stranger are concessions to the way men are, rather than idealistic portraits of how they should be.The rule of philosopher-kings is not proposed, and the fact that all three interlocutors come from cities that at one time or another were at war with one another introduces a note of distrust and seriousness that is missing in the more playful "Republic"; this seriousness befits the discussion's more practical nature.Pangle's translation is literal and trustworthy where other translations take liberties with Plato's terminology, while the notes ameliorate the limitations of the translation form. If you are unsatisfied with this, prepare to learn the Greek since a better translation is not likely to be forthcoming. If Pangle's Interpretive Essay leaves a bad taste in your mout, feel free to read "The Argument and the Action of Plato's Laws" by Leo Strauss.My impression, however, is that Pangle's essay is more appropriate for readers who may find the unfamiliar "Laws" more, well, unfamiliar than, say, the "Republic".No one can deny that the "Laws" is more complex than the "Republic" and builds on many of that dialogue's insights,coming as it does at the end of Plato's career.To my mind, however, it is as indispensable as the "Republic" and teachers do their students a great disservice by not assigning the "Laws" more often.In conclusion, I highly recommend this dialogue and translation--accept no substitutes.

Where's the Philosophy?
This is a very flawed book. The translation suffices; however, the Interpretive essay is horribly flawed. Pangle bases his essay with direct reference to 'The Aplopgy' a profoundly exoteric work that does not shedsufficent insight into Socrates' view of philosophy. Even worse, Panglestates that 'The Laws' is what Socrates would have done if he had the timeand oppurtunity to be a legislater. Garbage. There is no support for thiswild asserion. Moreover, Plato himself took great pains to not includeSocrates in 'The Laws', for his name never appears in the text. Yes, thereare brilliant men who think The Athenian Stranger is Socrates (Leo Straussand Aristotle) but Pangle just takes their word for it, he cannot argue hisown case, a very unphilosophic thing to do, and bulldoses his way into hisessay using Socrates name as a substitute for The Athenian Stranger. Ifound this, personally, quite apalling. There must be a deeper reason whyPlato took such care in drafting his dialogues. Pardon my snotiness here,but I think Pangle is just imatating his Cornell professor AllanBloom whowrote a truly philosophic masterpiece in 1968 with his translation of 'TheRepublc', why Pangle, at such a young age took on such a deeply complicateddialogue is beyond me, Leo Strauss waited until he was in his sixtiesbefore he published anything on 'The Laws'. Think how Book X of 'TheRepublic' denigrates imitation. Pangle's entire Interpretive Essay shouldbe rewritten- it's unphilosophical. He should return to 'The Republic' andmake an effort at understanding how each book relates to one another andespecially how Plato himself thought they related. Such an endevour wouldbe worthy of the name schlorship, philosophy, and Allan Bloom.

Great Bookon the politics
The Laws by Plato is one of the best book on the political science. Here are some reasons why I think the Laws is the best book of the politics. First, This book extensively and thoroughly covers every aspects of the society such as education, laws, politics, justice, and religion. Unlike the Republic, the Laws has some pratical values in it. In other word, every political idea in this book is applicable to the Greek-States at the Hellinic period. ... Read more

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Timothy ChappellÂ’s new translation of the Theaetetus is presented here in short sections of text, each preceded by a summary of the argument and followed by his philosophical commentary on it. Introductory remarks discuss Plato and his works, his use of dialogue, the structure of the Theaetetus, and alternative interpretations of the work as a whole. A glossary and bibliography are provided. ... Read more

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Insightful analysis
I am not a Plato scholar (at least not yet) so I bought this book hoping it would provide me with a detailed explanation of one of my favorite Platonic dialogues, the Theaetetus.After reading and re-reading this book I have to say it provided what I expected and then some.I would recommend this book to anyone who has read the Theaetetus and is looking for a scholarly examination of that dialogue -- but don't expect an easy read.Chappell's discussion is complex in its own right and requires careful study.Anyone who gets to the point where they want to read this kind of book should expect it to be complex.Chappell does afford guides within the text to assist more casual readers to navigate more easily through it.I do feel as though I have a much more insightful understanding of the Theaetetus and can more easily discuss and debate the main issues of the dialogue in my philosophy classes.I assume that is what motivated him to write it in the first place and so, therefore, it is successful in its intent. ... Read more

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Plato's Meno with Introduction, Translated by Benjamin Jowett. ***Special Student Edition with a separate area on each page for notes. ... Read more

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Classic Writing at an Excellent Price
What can I say? Six Dialogues of the master Plato in one very inexpensive edition. This is an excellent bargain. ... Read more

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Paul Shorey's unsurpassed translation is published herewith his original footnotes (missing in the Bollingen reprint), whichclarify readings and explain nuances. The Loeb edition of The Republicis in two volumes. ... Read more

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Reason allows us to live for something
I read Plato's Republic for a graduate philosophy class. I paid close attention to Plato's thesis of courage in his Republic, which I expound below. I found G. M. A. Grubb's translation to be the best of several I read.

Plato's project in the Republic is to form the "perfect" society. "Reason allows us to live for something." Through reason we set goals and organize our lives around achieving goals. Plato argues that the government's duty to citizens is to provide justice, and educate citizens both men and women. The state's social structure stood for justice and was divided into three groups. Rulers- those trained to use reason and posses wisdom. Guardians/ Soldiers have courage/spirit. Artisans have moderation of appetites. Plato's ideal ruler, the "Philosopher King," should be 50 years old with 15 years of government experience and should have studied science and philosophy. The ruler must show a mastery of Arete = excellence vs. akrasia= weakening of will, or no self-control. The ruler should think logically not emotionally. In the Republic to insure excellent people Plato advocated selective breeding of excellent unmarried people who lived in communes, who did not own property.

Plato describes five types of government in the Republic:

1. Aristocracy- Plato considered this the best form of government; aristocracy embodies wisdom of the philosopher king.
2. Timocracy- military government embodies virtues of honor and courage.
3. Oligarchy- rule by a rich elite, their vice is greed, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
4. Democracy- mob rule, and chaos, it represents akrasia people are slaves of their desires and have little self-control.
5. Tyranny- this is the worst form of government. The vice is selfishness, one power crazed person in control.

Plato's purpose in the Republic is not to perfect the character of people as an end but only as a means to an end. Plato's aim has a definite effect on his definition of courage. I find this is especially the case when exploring his ideas on how to educate the Guardians of the city to act courageously. Plato's goal is to match a person's character disposition to a job they are naturally inclined to perform in the city. Once he [Plato] has introduced the city in 369 b-d, he immediately advances the thesis, which is to dominate the rest of the Republic, that the needs of its inhabitants can best be met if each person in it performs that single task, and that single task alone, for which he is naturally suited.

With this view of human nature in mind, in Plato's model society, he divides the citizens into three classes. Rulers from whom the "philosopher king," will be selected, Guardians who are soldiers to protect the state, and the rest of the citizens classified as Artisans This division of citizens precipitates a discussion by Plato on the four virtues that these citizens will bring to the state. In the history of philosophy this becomes known as the "four cardinal virtues"; wisdom, courage, moderation, and justice. With this introduction of courage as a virtue, Plato takes another crack at defining courage. What is also important to observe is that he introduces a new element, that of education, in his definition of courage that was absent from his early dialogue Laches.

Plato espouses the idea in the Republic that the Guardians need to possess certain natural qualities; such as strength, speed, and courage. It seems odd that Plato classifies courage as a natural quality possessed by certain people. This automatically presupposes that not all people can practice the virtue of courage. Plato's successor Aristotle, will argue against this notion in his EN. In addition, Plato argues that in order for people to be courageous they must also have an aggressive thumos [passion], which makes both people and animals fearless and determined. Plato fears that the Guardians could be susceptible to using their passion of aggressiveness against there own people. Therefore, he counsels that the Guardians who naturally possess aggressiveness have to also naturally possess the opposite characteristic of gentleness as well, so that their aggressiveness will only be used against the enemy and not their own citizenry.

This dialogue is significant in that it helps to flesh out Plato's notion of what ultimately makes a person courageous. First, Plato argues that the goal of education, which he compares to a sheepdog, is to watch over the Guardians; thus, with the proper education he believes the proper balance between exciting their aggressiveness and subduing it in the Guardians can be achieved. Second, Plato believes that if aggressiveness is properly excited by physical training, then the Guardian will be courageous. If overly excited they will be like a wild beast devoid of grace and will become ignorant. Finally, Plato argues in his education section of the Republic, that to counter the possibility of a Guardian developing an over excited passion of aggressiveness, it is necessary to teach the Guardians literature and music during the same time they undergo physical training.

Thus, Plato hopes this balanced approach to educating the Guardians will then lead to courage being a controlled and calm act of endurance in battle, instead of a foolhardy lust for blood letting and an emotional reaction to war. Not only does Plato spend a significant amount of time advocating for the tools necessary to subdue the passions of the Guardians in book three of the Republic, but another important point in Plato's philosophy to consider is that since he believes that a Guardian's aggressiveness is influenced by literature he is very concerned by what type of literature is taught to them as well. Plato is very concerned that the archetypical heroic warrior Achilles, as depicted in Homer's epic poem the Iliad along with those depicted in Greek tragedies performed on stage, are bad examples for the Guardians to emulate. Consequently, Plato advises that heroes of Greek literature should be depicted as thoughtfully courageous and in control of their anger and physically resilient warriors. Thus, Plato seems to be using the term andreia [courage] to cover (at the least) both courage proper, which can only exist in some kind of unity with the other virtues, and raw mettle or aggressiveness, which can exist in conjunction with various vices. Plato in book four of the Republic does move on from his study of thumos as the prime motivating force to act courageously, to actually defining the virtue of courage. Plato defines courage as a person's ability to subdue their aggressiveness by the orders of their reason in regards to what they should be fearful of regardless of their own feelings of pain or pleasure. Plato's expounded definition of the virtue of courage is that a courageous act is an amalgamation of a person's natural passion of aggressiveness and properly educated rational beliefs over what is worthy regarding the possibility of losing their life or limb over.

Excellent edition of The Republic
Shorey's english rendering of the Greek in the Loeb edition is, in my opinion, excellent. More than anything, he captures the passion and fervor of Socrates beautifully, as his english rendering of the text is significantly more poetic than the vast majority of translations of The Republic. While, obviously, there are countless other editions and translations of The Republic, few of these do "justice" to the work qua literature as Shorey does. Shorey's translation, while perhaps a little less accessible to beginning readers than Alan Bloom's or WHD Rouse's, is not difficult to the point of inaccessibility, and its strengths in other regards are too significant to make it necessary to purchase anything other than the Loeb edition of The Republic.

It is my hope that this review is actually helpful to someone that is deciding which edition or translation of The Republic to buy. Far too many Amazon reviews are little more than opining on the ostensible subject matter of a book that the individual either did not read, or did not understand. ... Read more

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Authoritative and idiomatic, this translation has already established an impressive foothold in the college market. ... Read more

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Response to Ego
Mr Neulander,
It's sweet that you have read books.
To review this book you should probably READ this book, the one you are supposedly reviewing as opposed to expounding your wonderfulness into the ether.
Self abuse should be kept private. ... Read more

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A translation of Plato's "Symposium" which aims to bring this text to life for modern readers. There is also a commentary which not only discusses Plato's philosophy and the world of Greek antiquity but also provides insights into 20th-century philosophical concerns. ... Read more

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Everymans banquet
Plato's Symposium is, at least in my opinion, one of the best works of the Western philosophical school.
Like most of his dialogs, it reads like a novel but packs more challeges than a small encyclopedia;unless you have a vey advanced education in philo ( and perhaps even then) you will benefit from the comentaries of an expert, which is exactly what you get here.
I found the exerxise more enjoyable if you read the original for a bit and then go and review what prof R. E. Allen has to say, then reflect upon it a bit and then carry on to the end of the next section and start all over agin.
After you finish you will want to read the original again, non stop, and have a great experience all over again.
This is a great translation with inteligent comentaries, a most for anyone interested in Plato and the Socratic lore.

The place to start
This was the first book I read on Symposium, and I was glad. Later when I wanted to know more I moved on to Rosen and Dover, but if all you want to do is read the Symposium with a commentary, this is the place to start.Allen gives you just enough detail to be enlightening, without swampingyou. If you want to be swamped, read Rosen (not that being swamped isnecessarily a bad thing). If you want to be entertained, read Allen. ... Read more

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Plato's Phaedo, written by legendary author Plato, is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, Plato's Phaedo is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, Plato's Phaedo would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

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An incredibly insightful introduction.
I have no desire to critique Plato or to give a synopsis of his Phaedo.What drew me to this review is actually the translators' introduction.Brann, Kalkavage and Salem do, what I think, is an excellent job at breaking down the imagery and themes of the piece while adding a tremendous amount of background.If this were my first encounter with Plato or Greek thought in general, I would find the introduction to be infinitely valuable.For example, the translators point out that Socrates' execution is being postponed due to a celebration.As it goes, each year the Athenians, in accordance to their vow to Apollo, send an emissary to Delos.Before they return, the city must keep itself pure and not put anyone to death.This is to commemorate Theseus' recovery of fourteen young Athenians from the Minotaur of Crete.Now in the Phaedo, Socrates is Theseus, the fourteen present are the same from the Minotaur's labyrinth and the Minotaur represents death itself.Personally, I found that little bit of information both charming and useful.The introduction is jam-packed full of such goodies that will help the reader gain a deeper understanding of this piece than if he or she were to just read it alone.

Superb Translation of One of the Most Important Texts
To my mind, this translation surpasses all others with which I am familiar.The translation (1) has a flowing literary style that does justice to the rich feel of reading Plato's own prose, (2) is remarkably precise in its reflecting of the original language, with the result that, when one notices something interesting going on in the language of the translation, one will consistently find it is reproducing what is found in the Greek.In both these ways, this is a very trustworthy text--the reader can confidently presume to be experiencing Plato's writing.The dialogue itself--Plato's _Phaedo_--has few parallels for philosophical, literary and cultural depth and importance.It is the conversation Socrates has on the day of his death with a number of philosophical admirers.It is a rich discussion of the nature of knowledge, the nature of virtue, the ultimate nature of reality and especially the nature of death itself.The introduction by the translators is also uncommonly good for putting the reader in a position to read the text well.This is the only translation of the _Phaedo_ that I will assign to my classes.This translation is a fantastic accomplishment.

Translation
Ms. Evan Brann is one of the finest translators of Greek in the country.Using the system laid out by Jacob Kline, Ms. Brann has perfected the ideal of literal translation.She stays with the Greek and allows the reader to decide just what Plato said without getting in the way.The glossaries are particularly useful to those with even a rudimentary knowlege of the language of the Greeks.Do not allow a translator or editor to stand between you and the text: choose Brann.

The true Philosopher is always seeking to free the soul from the body
_If it was up to me to preserve just one of the dialogues of Plato for posterity it would be the Phaedo. That is because this is the metaphysical core of the teachings of Socrates (the main character) as told by Plato. As is emphasized in the text, death is the main topic of concern for the true philosopher- and that is what is covered here. However, there is nothing morbid about it. This is a message of hope, for Socrates establishes the divinity and immortality of the soul. The good man, he who has purified himself through the love of wisdom (Philosophy) goes to a higher, purer realm to be with like-minded souls and the gods themselves. The bad man also goes to his just reward with those of like character.

_If I was to abstract the core truth here it would be that the true philosopher is always trying to free his soul from the body- for only then is the soul free of the distractions and distortions that can corrupt it and keep it from direct perception of the Ideals (Absolute Truth, Good, Beauty, and Justice.)

_You easily see where the Church borrowed so much of its basic theological underpinnings. In fact, reading this work abolishes forever in your mind the idea that the pre-Christian pagans were in anyway necessarily savage or barbaric in their deepest spiritual beliefs. This is spirituality more pure than anything preached by the Church- and it is supported by reasoned argument and not appeal to empty faith and authority.

_The closing of the dialog is probably the finest depiction in Western literature of the death of a great and good man. You truly concur that Socrates was indeed "the wisest and justest and best of all men."

The true Philosopher is always seeking to free the soul from the body
_If it was up to me to preserve just one of the dialogues of Plato for posterity it would be the Phaedo. That is because this is the metaphysical core of the teachings of Socrates (the main character) as told by Plato. As is emphasized in the text, death is the main topic of concern for the true philosopher- and that is what is covered here. However, there is nothing morbid about it. This is a message of hope, for Socrates establishes the divinity and immortality of the soul. The good man, he who has purified himself through the love of wisdom (Philosophy) goes to a higher, purer realm to be with like-minded souls and the gods themselves. The bad man also goes to his just reward with those of like character.

_If I was to abstract the core truth here it would be that the true philosopher is always trying to free his soul from the body- for only then is the soul free of the distractions and distortions that can corrupt it and keep it from direct perception of the Ideals (Absolute Truth, Good, Beauty, and Justice.)

_You easily see where the Church borrowed so much of its basic theological underpinnings. In fact, reading this work abolishes forever in your mind the idea that the pre-Christian pagans were in anyway necessarily savage or barbaric in their deepest spiritual beliefs. This is spirituality more pure than anything preached by the Church- and it is supported by reasoned argument and not appeal to empty faith and authority.

_The closing of the dialog is probably the finest depiction in Western literature of the death of a great and good man. You truly concur that Socrates was indeed the wisest and justest and best of all men. ... Read more

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This long awaited new edition contains seven of the dialogues of Plato, and is the first in the five-volume complete edition of Plato's works in the Oxford Classical Texts series. The result of many years of painstaking scholarship, the new volume will replace the now nearly one hundred-year-old original edition, and is destined to become just as long lasting a classic. ... Read more

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Definitive Classical Text
These Oxford editions are the definitive Greek texts for Plato's entire body of work. They are the culmination of a vast tradition of scholarly erudition. They include not only a fine edition of the texts, but also an extensive critical apparatus in the footnotes in which alternate readings adopted by other editors are listed. In effect, in this edition, you get the whole history of all other editions of Plato.

Oxford is in the process of putting out a new set of re-edited Plato's. These represent the latest trends in scholarly thought on Plato. However they do not represent any new discoveries--they are only a new set of editorial decisions by a new editor, but the same old material. The new set look quite good so far, but the older edition (By John Burnet, or Ioannes Burnet in Latin) are not rendered obsolete or out of date by this one. My personal preference is for the older Burnet edition. ... Read more

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Contained in this volume are two works by the great ancient Greek philosopher Plato. The "Protagoras", like several of the Dialogues of Plato, is put into the mouth of Socrates, who describes a conversation which had taken place between himself and the great Sophist at the house of Callias-'the man who had spent more upon the Sophists than all the rest of the world'-and in which the learned Hippias and the grammarian Prodicus had also shared, as well as Alcibiades and Critias, both of whom said a few words-in the presence of a distinguished company consisting of disciples of Protagoras and of leading Athenians belonging to the Socratic circle. The dialogue commences with a request on the part of Hippocrates that Socrates would introduce him to the celebrated teacher. He has come before the dawn had risen-so fervid is his zeal. Socrates moderates his excitement and advises him to find out 'what Protagoras will make of him,' before he becomes his pupil. The "Meno" begins abruptly with a question of Meno, who asks, 'whether virtue can be taught.' Socrates replies that he does not as yet know what virtue is, and has never known anyone who did. 'Then he cannot have met Gorgias when he was at Athens.' Yes, Socrates had met him, but he has a bad memory, and has forgotten what Gorgias said. Will Meno tell him his own notion, which is probably not very different from that of Gorgias? 'O yes-nothing easier: there is the virtue of a man, of a woman, of an old man, and of a child; there is a virtue of every age and state of life, all of which may be easily described.' Here is presented the classic introductions and translations of Benjamin Jowett. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

Plato's Protagoras and Meno translated by Robert Bartlett, Agora Editions Cornell University Press
Meticulous, literal translations. The Protagoras was a great read. Decent price for such good translations and interpretive essays, which I have not read yet, but look forward to. These translations of the Protagoras and Meno should be the standard! They are the clearest and most faithful to the original Greek.

Does Have Stephanus Numbers and Standard Pagination!
This copy does have standard pagination and Stephanus numbers. Needed this for a class. Anyone else looking for these markings will find it in this copy for Meno and Protagoras. Shame on Amazon for not giving at least one sample page of the actual translation so customers would know this!

Best Edition--Highly Recommended
This is the best edition of these dialogues. The translations are clear and accurate, the essays extremely helpful. ... Read more

Product Description
Plato's Symposium is the most literary of all his works and one which all students of classics are likely to want to read whether or not they are studying Plato's philosophy. But the reader does need help in appreciating both the artistry and the arguments, and in comprehending the social and cultural background against which the 'praise of love' is delivered. Sir Kenneth Dover provides here a sympathetic and modern edition of the kind that is long overdue. It consists of an introduction, the Greek text accompanied by a very abbreviated critical apparatus, and a commentary on the text which is intended to elucidate the Greek, to make the philosophical argument intelligible, and to relate the content of what is said to the concepts and assumptions of contemporary morality and society. An edition for students of Greek in universities and the upper forms of schools. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (12)

passionately rational loving
The Symposium of Plato is a profoundly thought-provoking, entertaining and inspiring piece of philosophical writing.It is very short, yet infinitely more substantial than many longer works.

We are in Athens, 416 B.C.E.The scene is a banquet at the house of Agathon, who had the day before celebrated the victory of his tragedy.By the end of the party, seven men - and one absent but central woman - will have presented their views on the nature and meaning of Eros, or love.

There is no difficulty in keeping the characters distinct in our minds.Plato has great fun contrasting the opinions - and verbal styles - of tragic poet, comic poet, politician, physician and the rest, allowing absurdities and profundities to mingle freely.Socrates is very appealing, saint-like, yet utterly down-to-earth, playing his usual role of a 'philosopher' - one who 'knows only that he does not know' - always in passionate search of the truth, but catching only revelatory glimpses of its perfection.

Phaedrus gives the first speech, praising lovers' (especially homosexual) passion and loyalty, which makes them perform mighty and heroic deeds.Pausanias differentiates between virtuous, or spiritual love, and common, or bodily love.Virtuous love between men should not be primarily about sex, but about improvement and education of the soul.Eryximachus, the doctor, makes a mostly irrelevant (and boring) speech, claiming nature's contrasting elements illustrate the need to balance the healthy and unhealthy aspects of love.Aristophanes then delivers a brilliantly memorable speech, hilarious and poignant by turns, telling of how humans were once two-in-one, back to back, with two heads, four arms and four legs, with three combinations of sexes, male/male, male/female, and female/female.Their strength and speed made them threaten the gods, so Zeus cut them in half, leaving them to search forever for their other halves, and through love attempt to regain their original oneness.Agathon then gives an over-the-top, ecstatic speech, praising love as the youngest, most graceful of the gods, saying he brought order to heaven itself, 'empties men of disaffection and fills them with affection', etc, climaxing with the suggestion we all follow in love's footsteps, 'sweetly singing in his honour'.

It is then Socrates' turn.He performs for all conversations that took place between himself when much younger and Diotima, a 'wise' woman from Mantineia, to whom he had gone for instruction in the highest truths of love.In sum, the lesson is that love is the desire for the everlasting possession of the good and beautiful, which brings happiness.We crave immortality, in order to be happy eternally.We love our offspring, artistic works, laws and institutions, because they are all attempts to achieve an immortal name.These, Diotima claims, are the 'lesser' mysteries of love.

The 'greater' proceed from the 'lesser' in ascending steps.From one beautiful body the lover creates 'fair notions', then he sees all bodies are similar and equally worthy of love.From bodies he proceeds to the beauty of the virtuous mind, then the beauties of institutions and laws, climbing from there to the beauty of the sciences, until, after much growth in wisdom, he reaches the vision of all creation as beautiful.The final step is to rise to the contemplation of unchanging, eternal, absolute beauty itself.To spend your life in union with perfect beauty allows you to bring forth 'real' things, not 'images' and 'be immortal, if mortal man may'.

A drunken Alcibiades bursts in at this point, and gives a rambling, often funny, speech about his love for Socrates and how he - a very beautiful man - was spurned sexually by him.He describes Socrates' near-supernatural control of himself, totally above the effects of pain and pleasure.The book ends with a description of Socrates' companions all falling asleep as dawn breaks (after all-night drinking) and his going about his usual day.

Throughout the Symposium, Plato makes it clear that sexual relations are not the best thing at all for 'lovers'; they who wish for the highest happiness must seek to grow in virtue and wisdom and become increasingly detached from earthly pleasures.This is the origin of the phrase 'Platonic love'.Women were not considered their intellectual and spiritual equals in Athens at the time, so men of sophistication had to look to each other for emotional sustenance.

What then, we may ask, can the Symposium offer human beings today who are not interested in purely mystical/intellectual living and prefer the sexual and emotional satisfactions found in personal relationships?

A great deal, I believe.In his introduction Benjamin Jowett states that Plato 'is conscious that the highest and noblest things in the world are not easily severed from the sensual desires, or may even be regarded as a spiritual form of them'.In other words, earthly pleasures and transcendent ones are inextricable.Plato used words such as 'good' and 'virtue' to describe freeing oneself from the world of the senses, by using our reason to choose correctly who - or what - to attach to as we move through life.If we choose correctly, be it friends, sexual or lifetime partners, we strengthen our sense of inner freedom, until finally we experience it at the deepest, mystical level - the profound shift in consciousness that Plato was pointing to as the highest good - which in and of itself is morally and values-neutral.

The genius of Plato is that he communicates the total commitment required to attain perfect freedom, and the moral obligation of all human beings to strive for the happiness it alone can deliver.

Love, Grecian Style
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Plato's "Symposium" is the story of Agathon's dinner party where conversation takes place with a small group of men, who recline, eat and drink around a table offering their views on Love. This story is an amazing account of how intelligent and yet so different a culture the men from ancient Greece were compared to our society today. Each speaker has this most amazing ability to tell two stories at the very same time, an creative artistic movement of what love 'is' in each and every story. applying and , metaphorically. intertwining a cultural, mythological story of the gods, giving far deeper meaning. In addition to this, the love relationships and sexual nature of these men also permeate an entire cultural feel to the story, enveloping a radical differentiation from our de-mystified and de-enchanted world back into a once existing world of substantial meaning and profundity.

Phaedrus, speaks first and relates how love is the greatest good, the beautiful, is shameful of ugly things and how only lovers are willing to die for one another.

The second speaker, Pausanias, applies two types of love, one Aphrodite, a common base love working at random with men's feelings, for money, for loving physical bodies, boys, men and women. The other type of love, from a much younger goddess, being a higher type, the heavenly, who only loves other men and boy love, but this is not physical body love but from affection of the mind of virtue and wisdom..

Aristophanes has the hiccups, so it is Eryximachus, a doctor, who speaks third, applying the idea of love as a double love; "for bodily health and disease are by common consent different things and unlike, and what is unlike desires and loves things unlike." p.82 The god of art was said to implant love as a healing art, all such love guided by this god. "It is quite illogical to say that a harmony is at variance with itself or is made up of notes still at variance." "So love as a whole has great and mighty power, or in a word, omnipotence ."

Aristophanes, the comic writer, gives a moving account of Love as a absolute human need, a desire for completion to the point of each person once shaped differently being cut in half, taking our current shape, in need of the other to complete the whole of what we once were. "For first there were three sexes, not two as at present, male and female, but also a third having both together," and they were violent, strong and forceful and would even attack the gods. So Zeus and the other gods held a meeting and decided to cut them in halves and make them weaker. From then on, they were sexually drawn to one another, both heterosexual and homosexual, reasons all due to the way of the cutting of the halves.Lesbianism and boy to man love is freely spoken of and justified according to this story of the gods. His moving speech on the beauty and virtue of love however, is according to Socrates, true only in the sense of romanticism and fictional idolatrous admiration of what love should be. For Socrates found such a romantic explanation of love as untrue to what love really is and what love contains, as it does not contain all the beauty and good.

The fourth speaker, Agathon gives a moving speech on the beauty and virtue of love however, it is according to Socrates, true only in the sense of romanticism and fictional idolatrous admiration of what love should be. "For all the gods are happy . . and love is the happiest of them all being the most beautiful and best . . the youngest of gods." In his speech, love is every good, virtuosos and beautiful thing.

The last speaker, Socrates, found such a romantic explanation of love to be untrue, for what desires good, virtue and wisdom is only something that does not contain such, something lacking, and therefore lacking it desires such things. Love only desires what it lacks. Love is neither beautiful nor ugly. "To have right opinion without being able to give reason is neither to understand nor is it ignorance. Right opinion is no doubt something between knowledge and ignorance."

It is so interesting how common and free sexuality and homosexuality were, how each man present commented on the beauty of the young men in their glory of youth. Alcibiades, jealous of Agathon, also a young beautiful male, makes a moving speech how Socrates refused his love and how other like young men, also were moved with his amazing wisdom and prose.

While women are generally discounted, and the bonding of affection in male love was considered a higher love by Pausanias, Socrates explanation of love, by far the most profound, was one he received from a woman named Diotima. Here, as another reviewer has stated, shows Plato's the egalitarianism and wisdom, like that of the beauty and ultimate goal of Love.

Later a group of men crash the party and the drinking really gets started. Some leave, while Socrates stays all night, never loosing integrity from his drinking and leaves with all his integrity.

One of those works that will be read forever, hopefully...
Perhaps the most "literary" of all Plato's works, "Symposium" is the story of a dinner party gathering of great (and a few not so great) minds, whom engage in a discussion in praise of eros, or passionate love.It is considered literary because it is highly metaphorical, it's characters are drawn well and in some cases unforgettably, and it succeeds on many levels.It is not uncommon for Socrates to elevate the subject of discussion in any given dialogue to that of our earthly existence, and how we should go about it.Perhaps shocking to readers unfamiliar with the Greeks is the prevalence of homosexual love, particularly with young boys.But, if nothing else, this is an insight into ancient culture.And the absolutely magnificent speeches given by Aristophanes and Socrates remain profound and beautiful to modern readers, regardless of whether or not the other speeches are unpalatable to some.Also, Alcibiades, drunken, hilarious rant is not to be missed.Read in a single sitting, this work is almost sublime.

One of Plato's materpieces
Enthralling, entertaining, educational, and thought-provoking, "The Symposium" is one of Plato's classics. A group of men gathered at a dinner party in ancient Greece discuss the topic of love. Each man offers his view or definition of love, and the results are all different, engaging, and full of symbolism. Although it is a short book, one must not read it once and put it away; it ought to be be read again and again just to compare to what is "picked up on" each time. One thing always puzzles me: I will never know why Plato included the doctor (his name escapes me at the moment) have a bout of hiccups during someone's speech. I have never come up with a satisfactory answer - nor has any one I know, either. Nevertheless, this is an excellent read that I highly recommend for anyone - student and nonstudent. Enjoy!

The Wit and Wisdom of Love
Plato's "Symposium" will always be read because there will always be people who question the nature of Love.Agathon's dinner party is the scene of a conversation between a small group of men, who go around the table offering their views on Love.What does Love mean to us to-day?Reading over the responses of the dinner-guests and their host, we find the same range of answers in Ancient Greece that we are likely to find now.

Phaedrus and Pausanias are utilitarians and materialists.Phaedrus looks at love between people and a proto-Burkean love for government and state.Pausanias complicates the argument, saying that there are two different kinds of love, one which is common and one which is heavenly - yet still oriented towards the real and the tangible.Eryximachus is a proto-Swedenborg, trying to reconcile or harmonize the two kinds of love.

The jewels of Plato's "Symposium" are Aristophanes and Socrates.Aristophanes gives us the profoundly moving depiction of Love as a fundamental human need, a desire for completion.For a writer of comedy, whose aim as an art form is forgiveness and acceptance, Aristophanes's explanation is no surprise, though its depth is amazing.While women are generally discounted throughout the "Symposium," not only does Socrates, as we might expect, completely astound his audience (both inside the book and out) with his progressively logical and ascendant view of Love, but he also does it through the voice of a woman, Diotima.When we realize that Socrates is a character in this fiction, and that his words originate in a woman, the egalitarianism and wisdom of Plato the author truly shines forth, like the absolute beauty he claims as the ultimate goal of Love.

Was Plato a feminist?I don't know.I do know that the "Symposium" is a tremendous book.I picked it up and did not stop reading it until I was finished.The style of the Penguin translation is smooth, with a lighthearted tone that can make you forget that you are reading philosophy.Plato's comedic masterpiece in the "Symposium" is the character of Alcibiades, who provides the work a fitting end.Get the "Symposium" and read it now.You cannot help but Love it...in a Platonic sort of way. ... Read more

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This comprehensive, yet compact, introduction examines Plato's understanding of law, justice, virtue, and the connection between politics and philosophy.

Focusing on three of Plato's dialogues -- The Laws, The Republic, and The Statesman -- Mark Blitz lays out the philosopher's principal interests in government and the strength and limit of the law, the connection between law and piety, the importance of founding, and the status and limits of political knowledge. He examines all of Plato's discussions of politics and virtues, comments on specific dialogues, and discusses the philosopher's explorations of beauty, pleasure, good, and the relations between politics and reason. Throughout, Blitz reinforces Plato's emphasis on clear and rigorous reasoning in ethics and political life and explains in straightforward language the valuable lessons one can draw from examining Plato's writings.

The only introduction to Plato that both gathers his separate discussions of politically relevant topics and pays close attention to the context and structure of his dialogues, this volume directly contrasts the modern view of politics with that of the ancient master. It is an excellent companion to Plato's Dialogues.

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The Last Days of Socrates, written by legendary author Plato, is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, The Last Days of Socrates is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, The Last Days of Socrates would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (12)

Trial of Socrates
Although book was labeled as used, it was not mentioned that the front cover was pretty much destroyed. Other than that the book is fine. However, shipping took quite a while.

Free soup for Socrates!
The life and legacy of Socrates can be interpreted in many different ways, and have been so interpreted. While that is frustrating, it could be argued that it's also inevitable. The words and deeds of great men have different effects on different people. Most scholars base their accounts of Socrates on Plato's dialogues, especially the four dialogues included in this volume: "Euthyphro", "Apology", "Crito" and "Phaedo". They deal with Socrates' trial, execution and death. And no, they don't answer the eternal questions. Rather, they raise more questions than they answer. But then, that's the point!

What makes Socrates so important? The reason, of course, is his philosophy. The whole point of philosophy is to reject tradition and revelation as automatic sources of knowledge, to be taken simply on faith. Instead, human reason is paramount. True, philosophy doesn't *necessarily* reject tradition and revelation, but it does say that such sources of knowledge should be scrutinized by reason. In this sense, philosophy is subversive and radical. At least in a society gone terribly wrong... I mean, who would need philosophy if society had been perfect?

Socrates wasn't the first philosopher, nor even necessarily the "best" one. The reason why his name has been associated with the philosophical endeavour is, of course, the story of his life and above all his death. Socrates became the first known martyr of philosophy, placing his conscience and convictions above politic. Socrates showed how dangerous philosophy can be, by questioning both the oligarchic regime of the Thirty Tyrants in Athens, and the later democracy. He was the perennial dissident, the man who questioned everyone and everything. Ironically, it was the democrats who had him railroaded and executed. A warning for the future?

I don't think Socrates was necessarily a "radical" in the modern sense of that term. He seems to have mingled in high society, and some of his friends and disciples had connections with the oligarchic regime. Neither his disciple Plato nor Plato's pupil Aristotle were democrats, not even by Greek standards. Socrates didn't seem to believe that society could be changed, and therefore tended to avoid politics, except when he was duty bound as a citizen to perform political tasks (he also fought as a soldier). In some ways, Socrates actually resembled a guru. His teachings were oral, he had a circle of admirers and disciples, and he may have imparted somewhat different teachings to each of them. There are also hints at a fundamentally religious worldview, as when Socrates says that a little god or daemon were giving him advice, when he talks of reincarnation and Heaven in "Phaedo", or when he takes seriously the oracular statements of the priestess at Delphi.

Yet, by his bold questioning of established politics, ethics and religion, Socrates nevertheless showed the radical potential of philosophy and rational discourse. On a more somber note, the trial and execution of Socrates also shows that some people, even in a democracy, simply can't stand the truth.

Free soup for Socrates? Still today, many people, rulers and commoners alike, would consider that proposal to be very provocative indeed.

Yawn
I am probably alone in thinking that Socrates was a pompous windbag and that the citizens of Athens deserve a small award for putting and end to his tedious speeches. This book is pure propaganda suggesting that Socrates was a saintly figure martyred by the evil mob. They had concocted ridiculous charges of corrupting the youth of Athens and then had him convicted in a kangaroo court.

The truth is of course more complex. Athens had been a democracy. Socrates and Plato were enemies of the democracy believing in rule by the rich. After the defeat of Athens by Sparta the democratic government was replaced by an oligarchy who used repression to maintain control. It was this government that was supported by Plato and Socrates. Both were in reality traitors to their country in much the same way that Pinochet was a traitor to Chile. After the corrupt rule of Plato's friends was overthrown democracy was re-instituted and Socrates was put on trial for his role in forming the views of those who destroyed the democratic system.

Plato spent his life writing crude anti-democratic propaganda such as this book. His philosophical system of government was that of a totalitarian society run by un-elected guardians. Popper the famous 20th Century Philosopher saw him as one of the forebears of the closed society along with Marx and Lennin.

If this book is to be believed and there is no particular reason to see it as accurate or truthful then Socrates bought his own fate upon himself. He had the chance of exile and he also had the chance to suggest an alternative punishment.

Despite his role as a traitor surely Socrates deserved death because of his life spent as a tedious bore. One cannot read any of the dialogues featuring his alleged sayings without seeing contrivance and he mis-recording of his opponents. At the conclusion of this book one can put it aside and feel a certain sense of satisfaction that the people of Athens did the right thing.

Philosopher at bay
In Athens, during the fifth century B.C., the Sophists were wise men.They were not philosophers, or scientists, they were itinerant teachers.Socrates was a moralist and a religious man.Plato was forty years younger than Socrates.THE APOLOGY and the CRITO are founded on fact, shaped by Plato's artistry, (he was a poet, also).

Socrates was indicted for impiety.A public action was brought against him as a menace to society.Orators and poets disliked Socrates's influence on the young.He asserted in THE APOLOGY that the true champion of justice must confine himself to private life.Socrates received the death penalty.He did not think he should stoop to servility because he was in danger.

Death is either annihilation or migration of the soul.Crito visited Socrates in prison.Crito urged him to escape.He claimed that Socrates was throwing away his life when he might save it.Socrates argued with Crito that he had no problem with the laws and, thus, he had a duty to be law-biding.Aiding Socrates's escape would be a breach of faith.

PHAEDO is the last conversation.Socrates believed a man should be cheerful in the face of death.A love of wisdom, not the body, makes a person cheerful.Soul resembles the divine, body resembles what is mortal.No soul which has not practiced philosophy may attain the divine nature.Pythagoreans have a theory of the soul.The soul is imperishable.Friends were admonished by Socrates to just be themselves.The philosopher faced death handily.

Amazing and wonderful, the three titles are a compelling work.

How is one to rate...
...a 2400 year old work of philosophy?The question, itself, is not without philosophic interest.

Rather than presume to judge Plato, or Socrates, or Plato-as-Socrates, I will simply add my own voice to the chorus of general opinion and say: TLDoS is as resonant and, in its way, relevant, today as it was so many aeons ago.Though hardly a work of unassailable logic it is, nonetheless, a deeply thoughtful, imaginative, and passionately argued one.As I made my way through it, I had to remind myself, from time to time, that what I had before me was a work of ancient literature.Tredennick and Tarrant are to be commended for their eminently readable translation.As I am not a classicist, I cannot speak to the quality of the translation, but if the quality of the endnotes serves as any indication, I would venture to guess that the translation is first-rate.

A very complex Socrates -- as remembered, as imagined, and perhaps also as invented -- emerges from the four dialogues in TSDoS.That this same Socrates still has power to reach across the ages to confound, inspire, frustrate, entertain, and teach is as sure a testament to his legacy, and to the legacy of classical Greek philosophy, as any.

Read and learn. ... Read more

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Considered to be one of the three greatest philosophical tomes of all time, The Republic is Plato's account and interpretation of Socrates's ideas about life, meaning, and the just society. This text has provoked and shaped thought for thousands of years and is as applicable now as it ever was. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

BUY IT NOW!!
I was having trouble interpreting Plato's The Republic, this book has been tremendously helpful. If you are having the same problem then get this book now!!

Excellent guide, learned a lot
I found this to be a clear, concise, and well written quide to understanding this venerable work. The author covers many topics, from the social and historical context of the work to the more abstract philosophical ideas. It helped me to better appreciate this important work and I learned a lot that was valuable and even useful.

I had a few comments myself to make. There might now be much I can add in a scholarly vein to what people have already said about Plato. But I thought I would make a few personal observations from the standpoint of a somewhat philosophically literate, 21st century man who is reading such an august classic in middle age.

I came to this book with more of a background in modern epistemology and the philosophy of science than in classical philosophy. So political philosophy isn't exactly my strong suit, but nevertheless I found the book interesting reading in a way I hadn't really thought of before.

Actually, I had read portions of this book 20 years ago when I was a young student first studying philosophy, and I have to say, there is something to be said for having a more mature outlook in approaching such a venerable work. At the time I thought political philosophy pretty dull stuff, and besides, I felt there was no real way to answer any of the important political questions that get debated here, despite the easy way Socrates disposes of everybody else's half-baked opinions and theories.

The fact is, if you move ahead 2400 years and read something like Karl Popper's "The Open Society and Its Enemies," an advanced modern work, you can see how much, or how little, political philosophy has progressed in the last 24 centuries.

Well, that may be true, but at least with this book you know where it basically all started. The best way to decide this issue is to read the book and decide for yourself.

Although entitled "The Republic," this society isn't like any republic you've probably ever read about. Plato proposes an ant- like communism where there is no private ownership of property, philosophers are kings, kings are philosophers, people cultivate physical, moral, and ethical qualities, and the idea of the good takes the place of political and social virtues.

Another odd facet is that the bravest citizens are permitted more wives than those less brave in battle. And then there is the infamous proposition that all poets and artists are to be banished since they are harmful purveyors of false illusions.

I find the Socratic method as a way of moving along the dialogue between the participants sort of interesting, and it is certainly an effective device. However, none of these people, even the famous Sophist Thrasymachus, are really Socrates' intellectual equal, so he really doesn't have much competition here.

(Cheap shot from the "Peanut Gallery"--not to digress too much, here, but if Socrates was supposed to be so wise, how come he married such a shrewish woman for a wife, Xantippe? They joked about how funny and incongruous that was even in Socrates's day).

If ancient Athens disproportionately had so many towering intellects, relative to its small population (about 20,000 people, most of whom were slaves anyway), you'd think they would show up in Plato's dialogues more. But all we seem to get are second- raters who are really no match for the clever Socrates. Of course, since the dialogues we have were written down by Socrates' most famous student, Plato, perhaps the cards were stacked a little in his teacher's favor.

Yet I would say this is still a great book. Classical scholars say there are more perfect, less flawed dialogues than Plato's Republic, but none that are as profound, wide-ranging, and as influential and important for later philosophy. As someone once wrote, in a sense the entire history of western philosophy "consists of nothing but footnotes to Plato." After finally reading it, I can see why there is so much truth to that statement.

I also had a brief comment to make on Plato's theory of justice.

Early on in the book there is the famous exchange between Socrates and the Sophist, Thrasymachus. Socrates asks him for his definition of Justice, and Thasymachus responds that "Justice is the interest of the stronger."

Socrates then uses his famous eponymous method to seemingly demolish the Sophist's position, and then presents his own view instead.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Thrasymachus here, if only on practical and historical grounds. Justice usually is the interest of the stronger. Perhaps this is not what Justice should be in human and social terms, but that's the reality.

Socrates' definition is a nice ideal, but rarely works out that way in practice. If one thinks of Thrasymachus' definition as simply pragmatic and realistic, and Socrates' definition as being the ideal that a true republic (or whatever society) should strive for, then I think this is a more accurate view of the situation. Socrates makes Thrasymachus' idea appear invalid, but in fact, his idea is more accurate in terms of how things actually work out in most parts of the world (and even in the US) than is Socrates' idea.

Not that this is right or even desirable, it's just the way things are.

A MUST HAVE!The only way to trudge through the Republic!
For college students, this book is a godsend.It lays out in common English basically everything that Plato and Socrates say in The Republic.Some of the most famous things from The Republic, including the Noble Lie,the Ship of State, and the Allegory of the Cave are put into layman'sterms, making those papers and homework questions relatively easy to write. If you are a student, or are reading The Republic for fun, you have tohave this book. ... Read more

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Gorgias written by legendary Greek Philosopher Plato is widely considered to be one of his best Socratic dialogues of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, Gorgias is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books America and beautifully produced, Gorgias would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

Wonderful English translation of the Gorgias
I assigned this to my political theory students last year, and learned what a fine job Arieti and Barrus have done.There are several other good translations out there; this one is more literal, but it makes good English sense nevertheless ("graspingness" and a few other awkward choices notwithstanding).

The great value of this edition, however, is the insightful scholarly introduction, the very helpful footnotes, the three appendices, and the glossary.The first appendix includes speeches from Thucydides which are relevant to the arguments about rhetoric from the Gorgias.The second one is an outline of the rhetorical principles laid out by the interloculotrs of the Gorgias, and the third is a short discussion of Socrates' use of the terms mythos and logos.The best thing in editorial materials, however, is the glossary, which offers extended scholarly explanations of key terms in the Gorgias and in Platonic philosophy generally.

On the downside: The translators have tried to show all the moving parts, as it were, of their work with the Greek text.So when they've supplied an English word not directly translated from a Greek word, they've put it in brackets.Some versions of the Bible do this as well.But the brackets are frequent and can get quite distacting at times, especially fro my undergrads I imagine.A more general concern with this choice would be: If you read Greek, you don't need Barrus and Arieti to tell you which words are direct translations and which aren't.But if you don't know Greek, you don't know what to do with this information, because you don't understand how the Greek sentence gets a long without these extra words.So it's seems like a pointless practice.Translate!And then when the readers learn Greek they can take a look at how you've done it.

Overall: a very impressive work, from two very careful and insightful readers and translators of Plato.

The Gorgias Done Right

Anyone interested in political science, Ancient Greek Thought, or Plato will want to read the Gorgias, so I will not presume to argue why it should be read, save thus: if you wish to be educated, you need books of this caliber.

Translation: Arieti and Barrus have done a conservative, literal job in giving us English for Plato's Greek, and thus there is much to praise. Occasionally the literalness seems excessive, as when they routinely insert bracketed phrases not literally present in the Greek, but I have no major complaints. Plato's style is polished and playful; the translators point out various places where he puns on different words or cracks jokes. Included in this translation are rhetorical examples taken from Thucydides; very illuminating.

Aesthetics: A pretty book. The text is well-sized and the index is helpful. The size is perfect for casual reading, for it's lightweight and compact.

Durability. As with most Focus books, quite durable. I treat my books (especially paperbacks) with kid gloves, and if you do the same it will remain in pristine condition, but it could stand up to a far greater abuse than it does under me.

Price: Quite cheap and competitive with Nichol's translation. You will get a lot of book for your buck if you buy it.

Plato: Gorgias
This is a basic text when studying the theory of composition.It is tedious times, but explains rhetoric in the form of a play with Socrates as a main character.Not a light read but definately worth its weight in proverbial gold. ... Read more

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These new translations of the Defence of Socrates, the Euthyphro, and the Crito present Plato's remarkable dramatizations of the momentous events surrounding the trial of Socrates in 399 BC, on charges of irreligion and corrupting the young. They form a dramatic and thematic sequence, raising fundamental questions about the basis of moral, religious, legal, and political obligation. The Introduction provides a stimulating philosophical and historical analysis of these texts, complemented by useful explanatory notes and an index of names. ... Read more

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perfect condition...fast shipping....very happy!!
A most excellent resource for anyone interested in not only studying rhetoric, but seeing shining examples!

Good for beginners.
For teachers looking for something between a comprehensive collection of the dialogues and a photocopied hand-out, this little edition nicely fits the bill.It's an extremely user-friendly translation with a generous introduction and copious but clear and concise endnotes.The editor admittedly errors on the side of verbosity in the introduction, going to excessive (not to mention gratuitous) lengths to argue that the "Crito" is not inconsistent with the "Apology."Also, rather than substituting "defense" for "apology" and " goodness" for "virtue," he might have accomplished the goal of a clear and accessible edition by giving the reader a bit more credit.Finally, many instructors and readers would understandably be forgiven if they shunned this edition because of its omission of the "Phaedo," the final chapter in the trial, sentencing, and punishment of Socrates. ... Read more

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Essential Keys to Plato
You'd think that after 24 centuries there might not be a whole lot of new things to say about Plato, but Zuckert makes startling discoveries about the Platonic corpus that everyone else seems to have overlooked. The first bombshell is that chronologically (in terms of when it was supposed to take place) Laws is the very first dialogue, not the last as many scholars have assumed. Since there's no mention of the Peloponnesian War, it must take place before 431, and in fact a close look shows that the Athenian Stranger's views are all rooted in pre-Socratic philosophy. Zuckert's clear, detailed, well substantiated argument about Laws got me hooked, and I ended up reading the entire 862 pages with interest and enjoyment--at the same time going over many of Plato's dialogues again.

Having read several essays on Plato by Leo Strauss, Zuckert's teacher, and his other followers, I was familiar with the idea that the argument of each dialogue emerges in tandem with the unfolding of the action, as well as the idea that the narrative structure (narrated by Socrates, told by a third person, not narrated, etc.) is related to the theme. Zuckert's approach, encompassing as it does the entire corpus, also makes clear the significance of the dramatic dates. For example, when we see that Lysis takes place years after Symposium and Phaedrus, we find that it "contains a critique of both the definitions of love presented in the two earlier dialogues" (p. 511). So what has sometimes been pigeonholed as a "minor" dialogue comes alive in the discussion of an important topic.

By looking at the dialogues in sequence we get a better sense of who Socrates is and how his thought developed (according to Plato, of course): the stripling struggling with Parmenides; the brash young man taking Protagoras down a couple notches with his hard questions; the confident thinker expounding a positive teaching in Symposium and Republic; the father figure seeking to benefit Theages and Meno; and finally the wise man facing his biological and intellectual limits in the dialogues around the time of the trial. The dialogues featuring Timaeus and the Eleatic philosopher offer contrasts that help us understand more deeply what Socrates is all about.

Although Zuckert follows in the footsteps of Strauss, who wrote that each of Plato's dialogues had to be understood in the context of the whole, she has a good grasp of the full gamut of research literature on Plato, not just Straussian, and a fine bibliography. Also unlike Strauss, she states what she thinks very clearly, and, moreover, in prose generally free of technical and academic terms. She is the worthy student of a great teacher, and this work marks an important new beginning in Platonic studies.

A paradigm shift in Plato studies
Prof. Zuckert offers in this amazing piece of scholarship a full review of Plato's Dialogues, from the perspective of their literary setting. The author's hermeneutical commitment is clear: A single dialogue can only be interpreted against the background of the complete set of Plato's Dialogues. And the entire collection of Plato's Dialogues cannot be understood based on compositional criteria, according to which there would be juvenile, transitional, mature, critical and old-age dialogues. Instead Zuckert follows the trend established by authors like Jacob Howland and Drew A. Hyland that reads the Dialogues in the dramatological order derived from their literary contents. However, Zuckert goes farther than previous scholars and proposes a comprehensive reading of the whole corpus. This reading makes manifest the originating motives of Socrates' engagement with philosophy, how it developed itself through successive stages, and what limits had eventually to confront. The table of contents can offer a glimpse of the wide scope and deep scholarship of this book.

Introduction: Platonic dramatology (1)

Part I: The political and philosophical problems (49)

1. Using Pre-Socratic philosophy to support political reform. The Athenian Stranger (51)

2. Plato's Parmenides: Parmenides' critique of Socrates and Plato's critique of Parmenides (147)

3. Becoming Socrates (180)

4. Socrates interrogates his contemporaries about the noble and good (215)

Part II: Two paradigms of philosophy (279)

5. Socrates' positive teaching (281)

6. Timaeus-Critias: Completing or challenging Socratic political philosophy? (420)

7. Socratic practice (482)

Conclusion to Part II: What the contrast with Timaeus tells us about Socrates (586)

Part III: The trial and death of Socrates (593)

8. The limits of human intelligence (595)

9. The Eleatic challenge (680)

10. The trial and death of Socrates (736)

Conclusion: Why Plato made Socrates his hero (815)

Bibliography (863)

Index (881)
... Read more

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Symposium written by legendary philosopher Plato is widely considered to be one of the top philosophical books of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, Symposium is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic philosophical literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books America and beautifully produced, Symposium would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

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Presents a new translation of Plato's celebrated account of a political utopia, which remains one of the most compelling and influential works in the history of philosophy. ... Read more

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Reason allows us to live for something
I read Terence Irwin's translation of Plato's Republic for a graduate philosophy class.I paid close attention to Plato's thesis of courage in his Republic, which I expound below.I found Irwin's translation to be one of the best of several I read.

Plato's project in the Republic is to form the "perfect" society."Reason allows us to live for something."Through reason we set goals and organize our lives around achieving goals.Plato argues that the government's duty to citizens is to provide justice, and educate citizens both men and women.The state's social structure stood for justice and was divided into three groups.Rulers- those trained to use reason and posses wisdom.Guardians/ Soldiers have courage/spirit.Artisans have moderation of appetites.Plato's ideal ruler, the "Philosopher King," should be 50 years old with 15 years of government experience and should have studied science and philosophy.The ruler must show a mastery of Arete = excellence vs. akrasia= weakening of will, or no self-control.The ruler should think logically not emotionally.In the Republic to insure excellent people Plato advocated selective breeding of excellent unmarried people who lived in communes, who did not own property.

Plato describes five types of government in the Republic:

1. Aristocracy- Plato considered this the best form of government; aristocracy embodies wisdom of the philosopher king.
2. Timocracy- military government embodies virtues of honor and courage.
3. Oligarchy- rule by a rich elite, their vice is greed, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
4. Democracy- mob rule, and chaos, it represents akrasia people are slaves of their desires and have little self-control.
5. Tyranny- this is the worst form of government.The vice is selfishness, one power crazed person in control.

Plato's purpose in the Republic is not to perfect the character of people as an end but only as a means to an end.Plato's aim has a definite effect on his definition of courage.I find this is especially the case when exploring his ideas on how to educate the Guardians of the city to act courageously.Plato's goal is to match a person's character disposition to a job they are naturally inclined to perform in the city.Once he [Plato] has introduced the city in 369 b-d, he immediately advances the thesis, which is to dominate the rest of the Republic, that the needs of its inhabitants can best be met if each person in it performs that single task, and that single task alone, for which he is naturally suited.

With this view of human nature in mind, in Plato's model society, he divides the citizens into three classes.Rulers from whom the "philosopher king," will be selected, Guardians who are soldiers to protect the state, and the rest of the citizens classified as ArtisansThis division of citizens precipitates a discussion by Plato on the four virtues that these citizens will bring to the state.In the history of philosophy this becomes known as the "four cardinal virtues"; wisdom, courage, moderation, and justice.With this introduction of courage as a virtue, Plato takes another crack at defining courage.What is also important to observe is that he introduces a new element, that of education, in his definition of courage that was absent from his early dialogue Laches.

Plato espouses the idea in the Republic that the Guardians need to possess certain natural qualities; such as strength, speed, and courage.It seems odd that Plato classifies courage as a natural quality possessed by certain people.This automatically presupposes that not all people can practice the virtue of courage.Plato's successor Aristotle, will argue against this notion in his EN.In addition, Plato argues that in order for people to be courageous they must also have an aggressive thumos [passion], which makes both people and animals fearless and determined.Plato fears that the Guardians could be susceptible to using their passion of aggressiveness against there own people.Therefore, he counsels that the Guardians who naturally possess aggressiveness have to also naturally possess the opposite characteristic of gentleness as well, so that their aggressiveness will only be used against the enemy and not their own citizenry.

This dialogue is significant in that it helps to flesh out Plato's notion of what ultimately makes a person courageous.First, Plato argues that the goal of education, which he compares to a sheepdog, is to watch over the Guardians; thus, with the proper education he believes the proper balance between exciting their aggressiveness and subduing it in the Guardians can be achieved.Second, Plato believes that if aggressiveness is properly excited by physical training, then the Guardian will be courageous.If overly excited they will be like a wild beast devoid of grace and will become ignorant.Finally, Plato argues in his education section of the Republic, that to counter the possibility of a Guardian developing an over excited passion of aggressiveness, it is necessary to teach the Guardians literature and music during the same time they undergo physical training.

Thus, Plato hopes this balanced approach to educating the Guardians will then lead to courage being a controlled and calm act of endurance in battle, instead of a foolhardy lust for blood letting and an emotional reaction to war.Not only does Plato spend a significant amount of time advocating for the tools necessary to subdue the passions of the Guardians in book three of the Republic, but another important point in Plato's philosophy to consider is that since he believes that a Guardian's aggressiveness is influenced by literature he is very concerned by what type of literature is taught to them as well.Plato is very concerned that the archetypical heroic warrior Achilles, as depicted in Homer's epic poem the Iliad along with those depicted in Greek tragedies performed on stage, are bad examples for the Guardians to emulate.Consequently, Plato advises that heroes of Greek literature should be depicted as thoughtfully courageous and in control of their anger and physically resilient warriors.Thus, Plato seems to be using the term andreia [courage] to cover (at the least) both courage proper, which can only exist in some kind of unity with the other virtues, and raw mettle or aggressiveness, which can exist in conjunction with various vices.Plato in book four of the Republic does move on from his study of thumos as the prime motivating force to act courageously, to actually defining the virtue of courage.Plato defines courage as a person's ability to subdue their aggressiveness by the orders of their reason in regards to what they should be fearful of regardless of their own feelings of pain or pleasure.Plato's expounded definition of the virtue of courage is that a courageous act is an amalgamation of a person's natural passion of aggressiveness and properly educated rational beliefs over what is worthy regarding the possibility of losing their life or limb over.

It will profoundly affect you
I find that Plato's Republic is not something you read but rather something you study.I read the book decades ago and over the years I keep coming back to it, particularly whenever I hear a lecture on Plato from a professor of philosophy and as you learn, you uncover more and more meaning to the work.

Overall, the book is foundational to Western Philosophy and I think it needs to be required reading for everyong shooting for a bachelor's degree.If you've finished college and you haven't had at least an introduction to Plato, you've been cheated and in that case I recommend you go back and get the book and read it.

Overall, the book is about Socrates sitting by the ocean on some Greek Island with some friends discussing how they'd build a perfect society and republic.They wind up throwing concepts around back and forth and as they do you get introduced to rhetoric, republican government, guardians, and all kinds of concepts like that which are pivotal to republics throughout the world.There are several key metaphors that come from Plato's Republic like the parable of the cave and the ship of state which serve to illustrate some challenges that Republics face.

In my experience, Plato's republic is monumental, especially given that it was written 2,500 years ago and since it forms one of the most solid foundations for Western Governments.

Depending on whether you're studying Philosophy or Government, your study of Plato's Republic might lead you in different directions.I found myself going down both the government and philosophy roads.From a government standpoint, I then went to some of the French philosophers like Richlieau, Rousseau, and Tocoqueville, and Italians like Machiavelli, and then to Locke and Hobbs and onto the Federalist Papers etc.From a philosophy standpoint I went down a more winding path of philosophers to Emerson, Thoreau, and then I found Derrida - definitely recommend Derrida (got to hand it to ourfriends the French on that one).My learning is not perfect and I still have a long way to go but I find that Plato sits at the foundation (is it perfect, no, but WOW it gets you thinking)

All in all Plato is must read if you care about the government we live in.This edition is a great one to put on a shelf. It is quite sturdy, I've given a couple of these away, and I recommend it as something to fill a shelf.I do own several editions, this one is overally good and readable.

If you're thinking about going down this path of reading the Greeks, I msut warn you that if you take your endeavor seriously, it will change your life.I also highly recommend a class on Plato or at least some lectures on Plato from a professional to help prime the pump.Once you get started though - it will profoundly affect you.

The Guide for Every Statesman
Plato's Republic is often quoted as one of the finest examples of philosophical thought of the western world. Written through the eyes of Socrates, Plato takes the reader into a world were debates are raged over such topics as justice, war, marriage, and the way a state should be ran. Plato holds accountable all theories presented, and each discussion is abundant with the Socratic way of teaching ... the best way to argue. It's a phenomenal book, a great read, and a great way to help one answer life's little mysteries in your own way. This book instills in its reader a sense of personal responsibility for his/her thoughts and philosophies, and gives him/her a new tool to aid him/her in discovering the true answers. If you're looking for a career in politics, the military, law, history, or just love to learn new ways, then Plato's Republic is the best thing since Coke. Just watch out the syntax and take it slow. ... Read more